Monday, January 12, 2009

Bad Call 2: Electric Siouxgaloo

Or...Dude, where's Zach Jones' suspension?

Eleven months ago, some North Dakota player dropped his gloves and got into a fight with a guy from Denver. Referee Marco Hunt gave said North Dakota player a double minor for roughing and a 10-minute misconduct.

Later that week, WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod decided Hunt "under-called" the fight and gave suspensions to the players.

That brings us to Saturday night. Same team. Same official. Zach Jones clearly drops his gloves and takes off his helmet with the intention of fighting Tony Lucia. The referee's intervene before Jones can reach his target(something the referees were reprimanded for not doing last year in another, different North Dakota fight, BTW), but it's pretty clear that Jones wasn't trying to shake Lucia's hand.

And for that, Jones received a two-minute minor for roughing and a 10-minute misconduct. Incidentally, that marked the fourth time in Jones' career that he got two minutes for roughing and a 10-minute misconduct rather than getting tossed for fighting. But the question is: why? If you're going to give a guy a penalty for whatever he intends to do after he drops his gloves and takes off his helmet--and then wrestles with the officials to break away, but that's a different discussion--how can you give him anything other than a fighting major?

Last time, that mistake got corrected. This one probably should be too.

109 comments:

Anonymous said...

Does there not have to be a PUNCH thrown? He didn't even get close enough to touch Lucia before the officials were in to protect young Tony's face.

If Lucia doesn't have to answer the bell for taking a spear at the Sioux player, what is preventing him from doing it again?

Anonymous said...

Another comment... did you even see the game? Did you see anything leading up to the incident? Did you see the actual incident you are calling for more penalties for?

Anonymous said...

The difference is obvious. Kyle Radke threw punches. Zach Jones did not.

Anonymous said...

You forget that a gopher player threw a few punches Frattin's way and didn't get a suspension either. So, if you are going to complain, you might want to look at both sides of that argument before you start to demand the suspension of Jones. Also, normally when the gloves come off that fast there has been some 'discussion' about the issue. Just b/c Lucia chickened out when the time came, doesn't mean that Jones deserves a suspension.

Anonymous said...

I don't disagree with what you're saying in regards to Jones, but if they go back and review the tape on this, they sure as hell better go back and review the spear on Trupp. Not surprised you didn't mention that one though...

Anonymous said...

Lucia must have been running his mouth and hiding & not fighting just like he did in the USHL.

Anonymous said...

How about Stoa? Will Hextall be getting an apology for that attack? I am glad Finley was there to pull Barbiedoll from doing harm to Hextall. If you watch the tape, Finley is keeping order.

Anonymous said...

Bariball should be embarrassed of the display he put on in Grand Forks...He looked brutal and got 2 10 minute misconducts..then tried to fight Hextall. That would have been funny too see, I'm sure he had lots of fighting practice when he played for Holy Angels.

Anonymous said...

I see a pattern here. These bloggers feel a fight or attempt at one is the issue. If the hit by the MN player is true, then the officals are the issue to stop it then. The "show" the ND player did was stupid to say the least. BTW is it me or does seem ND always has to rough it up, then cry the other team started it? Their style doesn't cut it in the frozen four, where they call it close & push for more with the puck than the butt end of the stick.

Anonymous said...

Finley is a candy---. He'll get to the NHL for awhile but he is way too soft. While there isn't anyone on the gophers his size there are a lot that are closer to his size than Barriball. Finley only hits the little ones, at least as far as I have seen.

BTW - I don't have this complaint against any of the other UND players. Finley sucks.

Anonymous said...

funny how you dont like sioux layers, fans or coaches. too bad for how great of a program is. lucia speared trupp and jones lined up at winger as lucia saw him and chickened like a little bird. jones wanted to finish what lucia started and they wanted no piece after the complete domination the sioux put on the helpless gophers. sorry blogboy. jones wont get suspeneded, hell lucia should for being such a chicken sh#$. great blog but lay off the sioux. the gophers got beatdown and this is what you bring up. funny

Anonymous said...

The gopher players always have been and always will be a bunch of cake eating nancy boys that poke and prod their way into goating the other teams. The depths of this astounds me. I wish other teams in the league could and would respond more often.

You couldn't find find a larger consortium of hacks than those that grace the world with the big M.

Anonymous said...

The common element in all this discussion is one thing...the sioux. THey have the rep of being tough team but Hakstol needs to take responsibility. Just because he likes fighting in college hockey does not mean any other team should oblige them. Fighting is illegal, as it should be in college hockey. it is obvious that Hack is sending guys out to fight. The WCHA should have a sit down with him. That being said, i didnt see the Lucia incident, if he indeed did spear Trupp he should sit a game as well.

Anonymous said...

Coach Hill in the pre-series said all the rules are thrown out for the series and set the tone with his team. He let them cheap shot Trupp and in another interview said it was a tap but the ND player stayed down. When the coach talks like that on TV think what the direction from the bench was. Hill is no Don and he let Don's kid cheap shot someone and called it a tap. Hill's team lost on the scoreboard and all the tough talk at the series start and the cheap shots make them look less like the Don's team than could have been expected. Hope Don gets back quick because it could be an ugly slide without him.

Anonymous said...

"If the hit by the MN player is true, then the officals are the issue to stop it then." Did you not watch the game or are you posting off of what you are reading?

I don't mind the play by Stoa on Hextall during the Friday game. He had had enough and tried to set an example. It was the same story for MN. Until they stand up to the bully, they're gonna struggle. Stoa attempted to do that. On Saturday, the Gophers tried to do it a little more, but they did it in a foolish way; a lot of it was after the whistle rather than during play. It started early with a retarded penalty by Larson after the whistle.

Does Carman plan on showing up for a game this year?

Anonymous said...

Say what you want about Finley, he was a +3 on the weekend. But dont even try to say that Cade Fairchild is better or is gonna be a better NHL player....Cade had a solid stat line of being out on the ice for 9 of 12 UND goals this weekend..meanwhile Finley was +3

Anonymous said...

I totally agree with your take Chris.... and I would like to add that Hak is a classless ass clown. He lines up one of his many goons as a forward with the intention of fighting Lucia....the Sioux are already up big and the game is over; and Hak encourages his team to live up to their low class repetation. No need for that. He is like a little petty child.

No Dak fans will defend everything that happened of course because they are just as little class. Bottom line is their state is so boring, with so little else to do; they will beat off for 5 weeks over this past week.... its just sad!

Mr. Impartial said...

If Jones doesn't get a suspension this week, I'll be shocked. Seriously -- the guy lines up at the winger spot, with no intent of actually playing the game of hockey when the puck is dropped. Then the refs have to pull him to the ground and basically through him off the ice.

I guess that a punch was never technically thrown. But based on what the league can review on tape, Jones sure looks like he only had intentions of being on all-out thug on that shift.

Anonymous said...

I've watched WCHA hockey for many years and right now I'm totally unbiased. If you take off the maroon-colored glasses and watch more games, you'll see that the Gophers seem to be involved in a lot of these types of games. Witness the WI series this season. What I saw in both the WI and the ND series was a MN team that just tries to get under the skin of the opponent, and not afraid to play cheap behind the play (the spearing is an example) but when it comes time to "Man Up" they won't unless it's to an under-sized opponent. The Sioux are a tough team, but will play a good hard-hitting game and if they lose, they lose. (Witness the GLI as an example.)

The MN Gophers want to blame the other teams, but in fact they have instigated almost every situation that has resulted in fights over the past multiple seasons. Give them their due, and if anyone should get a "after the game suspension" it should be Lucia on the spearing.

BrettB in STL said...

I love the anonymous keyboards running a muck out there!

This is partly why I'm starting to like the NHL better then the WCHA. Shootouts instead of sister kissing, and fights that keep players honest. I mean if Lucia, Stoa, or Barriball try those stunts in the NHL they better be ready to own up to it.

As for why Chris, and others like to point out UND, in these "questionable scrums/calls/no-calls" I do believe it's because UND is the only team out there where it's the standard to stick up for your teammates because you're family.

Lastly, I've watched enough hockey to know that the chippy play isn't started by the team dominating the game and the weekend. It's started by the team getting their azz handed to them. Therefore they try to put on the tough guy show, unfortunately Lucia and Co. just made themselves look even more rediculous.

Anonymous said...

If people drop their gloves in the NHL and there is no fight....then there is no fighting penalty. They may get unsportsmanlike or roughing penalties. Jones did cross the line by trying to get away from the refs for so long.

The bigger issue is if anyone was at the game (sioux or gopher fan) both teams were equally agressive. You can't say that this was the sioux being goons again. Barribal was trying to stir the pot all the time (hextall and once slashed someone in the back of the leg HARD after the whistle). Lucia's spear or butt-end on Trupp was uglier than what Jones did.

Like I said BOTH teams were fighting hard and BOTH teams were doing extra stuff. You can't say this was the sioux goons or whatever people are saying.

Anonymous said...

Droppin the gloves and helmet and INTENDING to fight and actual fightiong should be called the same.

Anonymous said...

Sioux land another Canadian, Corbin Knight. That will give Wooger and Mozoko more to talk about since they spent half their broadcast on it last weekend.

6>1 said...

Lots of talk of an alledged spear. It isn't on the tape of the game and if it happened as some Sioux fans assert, why didn't the Sioux fans and Sioux bench react immidiately to what happened?

Looked as though the Sioux player was doing an impression of a Brazilian soccer player. In watching the game and what happened immidiately after the "spear" why did it appear as though everyone in the rink was trying to figure out what happened? Just how does something like a spear in front of the bench area go undetected by four officials and most of the fans?

Schack and Frattin should both have gotten five for fighting. Jones however deserves a much more severe punishment. Under no circumstances should a player get away with putting his hands on a linesman the way Jones did. It really doesn't matter what preceded Jones' wig-out.

Anonymous said...

A Canadian - shocker!

Anonymous said...

Annon 9:08 - It's hilarious how you make "class" the focus of your post, and how Hakstol and his UND team lack it, but then you throw in your two cents about beating off. Now there's a fine example of class.

6>1 - The Sioux fans and bench did respond to the play, but you'd ACTUALLY HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN AT THE GAME TO SEE IT. I guess if FSN didn't replay it, it must not have happened...LOL..

Say what you want about Hak, but in 18 career games against MN, he's won 11 of them. If you go back to the series last year in MN, even Wooger was saying the Gophers needed to step up and defend themselves. It's the same thing year after year....Why would UND change their approach against MN?

Anonymous said...

If cheap shots, Haks, goons, nothing to do in North Dakota, etc. is the only concern MN fans have coming off of last weekend's series, they may want to rethink things. Things haven't been going well since they had that number 1 ranking, and their team looked like they didn't even want to be in North Dakota last weekend...

Anonymous said...

Finley is a real man.... he goes after a guy who is 5'8.... that takes balls!

Anonymous said...

Lucia agreed to fight, so when Jones dropped his gloves, and there was no capitulation, Jones lost it. I don't expect people from Minnesota to respect the game, but it is for reasons like this that USA hockey has a hard time competing with Canada in World events. Too many players that don't respect the game nor their teammates enough to stand up for either of them.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure there were a lot of +3 players for UND last weekend. Finley still sucks.

6>1 said...

Anon 12:36---I taped the game, whatever happened happened out of camera range. However, in watching a replay of what happened, with the soccer player laying on the ice, there really isn't any noticable difference in crowd reaction to what had happened. Certainly nothing like the time Prpch speared Paukavich. A flagrant spear would have elicited more of a response from the "knowledgeable" Sioux fans. Probably a major penalty for spearing as well. Why no call? Or is there such a thing as a good spear and a bad spear?

I did notice though that there were seven Sioux skaters on the ice to five shortly thereafter but I guess we can overlook that one, can't we?

Anonymous said...

You are trying to say that the 3 players from the Gophers at the world juniors was the reason the USA didn't win? That's comical considering Schroeder was one of a handful of players that actually showed up for the US.

Anonymous said...

3 Sioux players were on the radio today and said the "spear" in question was actually a butt-end. still a cheap play. they said Jones and Lucia discussed squaring off and Lucia skated away at the drop of the puck. that's when Jones went psycho. i was actually impressed that the Gophs tried to goon it up and throw some punches this weekend rather than the face wash while standing behind the linesman.

Anonymous said...

Hey 6>1, this is typical Maroon blinders. Can you honestly say that a guy that dragged himself across the ice when he broke his leg last year and did the same this year with a shoulder injury, was faking it as John Hill suggested. Contrary to what Minnesota teaches to dive and stay down, Sioux coaches teach just the opposite to get off the ice when unless you are physically unable. The reason the Sioux had 7 guys on the ice was because they jumped off after what happened to Trupp. Once again, Minnesota can't lose without blaming someone or changing the subject. What do last year in Mpls and this year have in common, the Sioux won-ergo the whining! If my team got throttled like that, I would be complaining about them and give the other team a few kudos.

Anonymous said...

Toss up PTI style -

Which would you rather be if you had no choice? A drunkin Sconi or a Hick from ND.

I would probably kill myself either way.... but I would rather be a No Dak hick I guess....a little less sister loving going on.

Anonymous said...

Nice comment, yet very predictable. I told my friend after the game on Saturday that comments would be forthcoming. It depends on where you want to live. I for one would not live in Murderapolis, nor a place that would elect the likes of Al Franken and Jesse Ventura. Only in Minnesota, Indeed!

Anonymous said...

Is it just me; or does this same topic come up all the time?

It's always some scrum in a ND v Mankato, ND v Wisconsin, ND v Duluth, and so on and so on.... ND is always the common denominator.

Anonymous said...

Finley is a 6'7 240-pound worthless sack of monkey turds. That twirp will be luck to make an ECHL roster.

Anonymous said...

2:29....exactly. That is the precise reason why Sioux fans and their dipsh** bloggers have no credibility. Just about every fight/brawl in the WCHA involves the Sioux. They may not always instigate but they sure as hell exacerbate. Hakstol and that program have class like an outhouse has fragrance.

Anonymous said...

I don't know much about blogging but I do think that "hits" are the key.

Why does Chris needle the Sioux? Watch the comment numbers everytime he does. He annoys the most passionate fans in hockey just enough to get a response but not alienate them.

Smart marketing Chris.

Anonymous said...

to poster above: Finley was better than every Gopher Defensemen last weekend. I've never seen a more pathetic defensive effort in all my years cheering for the Sioux. I think they could've used Big Joe last weekend. :)

Anonymous said...

annon 2:58 - you question the integrity of his blog just because he does not agree with you?

Anonymous said...

By class you mean like Coach Hill who says don't take away anything from North Dakota, but then calls them classless for dropping the gloves when his own player agreed to it, then backs out?

Anonymous said...

Lucia running for the refs reminds me of White trying to start something by grabbing a helmet in WI but then when he was confronted he turtled like a squirt against a bantam. I see more of this crap from MN than I do from ND.

Anonymous said...

I guess being a "grity" team doesn't get you a win over Boston College! hahahahahha.

Anonymous said...

Less sister loving in N. Dakota...? Have you been to N. Dakota? Your sister might be the only women within miles of you, other than your mom or grandma. A lot more sister loving on the high plains I would say.

I don't like the sioux or the gophers, but since I like the gophers less I really enjoyed watching these games. I thought the gophers were the instigators this weekend, and sure the Sioux may have took it to the next level, but if you are going to talk the smack and pull sh*t after the whistle, you better be ready to pay up, otherwise you're just a team full of douches.

Minnesota Golden Douche Bags, time for a mascot change.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:58 - Finally somebody actually gets it.

Anonymous said...

Who is the more goofy looking midget? Hak or Duncan?

Anonymous said...

Too bad the Gophers haven't let Grant Scott sniff the ice yet; he could have put a beat down on the No Dak goons.

I wonder why he hasn't played yet, we could have used him against the Sue.

Anonymous said...

It's very telling that all the Siouxage fans saw an alleged spear. FSN then could not provide a frame of video corroboration for this incident. So then apparently you had to be at the game to have been a witness. In the end their own players say it was a butt-end. What a bunch of lying morons Sue fans continue to be.


UND has proved time and again, however well they play, they can not escape their need to goon it up.

Where ever Finley lands I hope they have mascots so can keep the Siouxage tough guy tradition of slashing unarmed cartoon characters. Makes all his Internet buddies feel so big.

6>1 said...

Anon 1:55-- So now it was a butt end instead of a spear. Ok, if that is what the new story is, that definitely makes Trupp's laying on the ice look like an act. Just where did he get hit? And if it was a butt end why have so many Sioux fans on this site and in numerous other sites claimed it was a spear and they saw it happen??? Do they not know the difference between the two? Which was it? Spear or butt end or neither?

Guys(or gals) get your stories straight before making up all of these claims of cheap shots by your opponents. Anybody that comes onto a site like this claiming they saw Lucia spear Trupp has no credibility if now we are to believe that three Sioux players now claim it was a butt end. Considering how well the players are protected just where did Trupp get hit? He wasn't down that long and he didn't look too injured on the bench.

Soccer dive in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

I am a sioux fan and loyal reader of this blog, but I don't understand why UND is the only team that Chris rips on.

UND plays the game hard. I was at both games and Minnesota was as dirty if not dirtier than the Sioux. (I know I am biased but being at the games it was easy to tell that both teams were BATTLING)!

The fans are VERY passionate as you can tell. Yes there are dumb, classless fans but every team has them. Don't take what a few say and think that all are like this.

Lucia butt-ended Trupp....nuff said. Jones freaked and crossed the line...nuff said. Bottom line on the weekend is that both teams were dirty and PLAYING HARD!

Anonymous said...

I don't think the comment comparing USA Hockey and Team Canada was in any way directed towards blaming MN for this years World Jr. results. The point being made is fighting is a more prominant aspect of the Canadian game. They play a more physical brand of hockey. UND and the Canadian players it recruits play a very similar style game. MN and USA hockey mirror one another in the sense that they don't like the pysical play, and don't have success against it.

What's odd about NCAA hockey is the USHL, a league that prepares NCAA players, allows fighting in their games. Any level above the NCAA game allows it at as well. Yet, the gap is the NCAA.

RR said...

So now it's a butt end. Is that like the butt end that Kozek hit Fairchild with in the third period Saturday night? I'm sure some of the eagle eye Sioux fans had to see that one. It happened right near your goal.

Anonymous said...

"I guess being a "grity" team doesn't get you a win over Boston College! hahahahahha."


Who ended the Gophers season last year???Hahahahahahahahahaha....What a dipshit! If that's what being part of an "educated" blogger fan base means, I think a lot of us will pass.


Anon 4:24...they said the same thing last year Stu 'dill' Bickel...and what did he add to your squad?

Only a MN fan would argue with a bunch of Susies, and feel the need to go one step further and bash my
Badgers when we have nothing to do with the topic. Why don't you guys try focus on making it back to the Frozen Four so you can burn some more couches and cars...

Anonymous said...

Do you know why FSN could not provide a frame of video corroboration for this incident? Because it was half a rink away from the action! There is no reason that anything should have been going on in this area seeing as the puck was no where near there...

Anonymous said...

I don’t mind helping Chris get his hit count up, he does a pretty good job at providing relevant info about a pretty obscure sport. Major props for that.

On the other point, I just love all the goon, cheap, and classless comments and I’d be willing to bet that the Sioux players and coaching staff do as well. There is no better evidence of how afraid an opponent (or their fans) are of a team then this type of rhetoric. Absolutely priceless, keep it up boys!

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:16 - For God so loved the world... sorry couldn't resist.

I never said my position. I was just making an observation. I enjoy the blog.

But since you want to know,I don't think Jones should get suspended for fighting because a fight never happened. If anything he could get suspended for mistreatement of officials but since I have never seen a player get an extra game for not following an offical's direction following a fight, I don't think it will happen here. Last year Marco did screw up.

Anonymous said...

I haven't seen or heard it but I read that Hill called the alleged spear a "tap" in an intervew. Can anybody verify this interview?

Anonymous said...

I don't care what Finley's + /- stats are. Go watch that guy play. He's as overrated as they come. In big games he disappears like a fart in the wind.

Anonymous said...

With all these arguments about cheap shots and goons and whatever. Does anyone have numbers to back any of these claims. ie Penalty minutes, number of game misconducts, etc. Even with the blow up by Jones, you could argue that Stoa was as big of a goon. I mean at least Lucia was standing when he was confronted. Hextall put a pretty good number on Stoa anyway so it didn't really matter.

Whoever is saying Trupp was faking it, you must be watching too much Gopher hockey where its the norm. Trupp is tough as a coffin nail, if he stays down there is a reason. As for the call, no fight = no fighting penalty. It's not complicated, so don't make it complicated. Was there intent, of course, but nothing happened. No harm no foul. Give him a game for struggling with the ref if anything.

Also, I have never seen this as a WCHA blog. It is a Minnesota hockey blog. Hardly ever see any news of UND or AA recruiting. You get some Wisco news, but not much. There is more about MN high school hockey on here than info on those two schools.

As for the game argue anyway you want about any call, but the Sioux beat the Gophers on all fronts and with more class. (this time anyway)

Anonymous said...

The reality is a team often takes on the characteristics of its leadership. Given the classless displays we have seen come from the Sioux coaches, is it any wonder they don't have players that act the way they do?

It is the extra curricular garbage that UND is constantly involved in with other teams that make people rightfully criticize them. UND has a goon reputation for a reason and its not because fans of other teams fabricate it.

Anonymous said...

Good point about Hak being the facilitator.... this Jones incident doesn't even occur if Hak doesn't send him out there with instructions to throw down.... he even lines him up as a forward; can't you be a little more settle you gay elf?

Hak is like a child; not a coach.... He is however a good reflection of a university that continues to allow a mascot that is racist, and takes money for building areanas from racists. It's no wonder they hire a goon for a coach as well!

Anonymous said...

Lucia agreed to fight? Where did this come from? I thought Lucia followed the play after the whistle, unlike Jones who just ignored it.

UND is the team I love to hate but I do respect them - usually. The players tend to be good all-around and they tend to have grit. That said Jones was an embarrassment to UND and college hockey. And, like others have posted, Finley is neither good nor does he have grit.

Anonymous said...

Who paid for the Ralph again? Oh that's right; Hilter's buddy!

Kookman said...

Yeah. The rodents got their tails handed to them over the weekend. But really. How stupid can you sue fans be? Oh yeah. You follow the sue.

Your boy Jonesey was Jonesed by Lucia. Lucia played him. And played him well. And he played all the rest of you too. He was smart enough to bait Jones into dropping his gloves. That's why he is at the U while the rest of you only dream of going to a real school.

You can laugh at the goophers now. We'll be laughing at Jones' suspension later this week. And we'll really be laughing when you are on the outside looking in come March.

Anonymous said...

Finley still skates like he's holding in a big dump.

Anonymous said...

This suggestion is laughable. How about a suspsension from hockey for being a unsportsmanlike pussy to Lucia for both his spear and backing away from being a man.

Anonymous said...

Blah blah blah. In all this discussion of how classless the Sioux are no one has mentioned that after the Friday game Stoa said, on TV, that the coaches told the players to go after Hextall because he was "talking" all game.

The result is Stoa checking Hextall into his own goalie, and while Hextall literally just lays on the ice Stoa jumps on him and starts cross-checking him. Nice.

So the coaches send their players out after a guy who is chirping and that's ok, but if Hill characterizes a butt-end or spear (what's really the difference, anyway?) as a "bump" and calls Jones classless that's accepted as gospel?

Come on, the Gophers were just as responsible for what went on this weekend, if not more. Look at all the facts, not just what you want to believe.

Anonymous said...

Usually when there is a scrum in a UND game they are dominating the play and winning. So I say keep doing what we do and keep puting the fear of god in the opponents. And not to mention keep puting that big fat "W" up.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely a team is a direct reflection of its leadership.

There's no doubt NoDak is one of the more successful and storied programs in NCAA hockey. No one can deny that. But ask around--this program is losing more and more respect all the time among other fans, coaches, players etc. That's the reality. Sioux fans won't accept this of course, but the program's reputation is what it is. The more shennanigans Sioux players are involved in the more sullied the reputation.

Anonymous said...

Fighting in "illegal" in the NHL as well but if anyone really knows the history and dynamics of playing hockey, they will know the fighting is PART of the game.

As a Minny fan, what I saw on Friday and Saturday was a complete A$$ kicking by the Sioux. Fighting aside, the Sioux were pounding the Gophs with legal checking all six periods.

It's a long season and this series will long be remembered but the games in March and April are what really count.

BrettB in STL said...

Great Job Chris, 68 comments in, and I'll throw some more gasoline on the fire.

Since everyone seems to be whining about the cheap shots/fights/non-fights/taps/bumps/no-calls, who cares about them? I mean really the weekend is over. Was a player injured on a cheap shot or fight? The answer is no. If this was any other league, fights would've happened and order restored. Unfortunately it's the NCAA the league of turtling, moving on.

I did enjoy reading all the anonymous posters, but since no one posts a name, I don't really know who to direct this to. In regards to UofM being a better school over UND. I guess my only questions would be to you are these:

If you were a young hockey player, wouldn't you want to play at a school that is known to develop you, and help build your strength so you make it as an NHL All-Star?

Isn't that why these kids play the game is to eventually become NHL'ers?

Which University has more Alumni in the 2009 NHL All-Star game?
UND-Zach Parise, Jonathan Toews
UM-Tom Vanek (wait he's from Austria)

Which University has the most NHL players currently playing in the NHL?

18-UND-Drew Stafford,David Hale,Ryan Bayda, Jonathan Toews, Matt Greene, Brady Murray, Brandon Bochenski, Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, Jason Blake, Matt Smaby, Ryan Johnson, Matt Jones, Brian Lee, Mike Commodore, TJ Oshie, Chris Porter

12UoM-Phil Kessel, Thomas Vanek, Jordan Leopold, Wyatt Smith, Paul Martin, Barry Tallackson, Johnny Pohl, Jeff Taffe, Alex Goligoski, Keith Ballard, Ryan Potulny, Kyle Okposo (I took EJ off, because anybody that gets his arse handed to him by a golf cart, stepping out, shouldn't be considered a man)

Which University has only sent 1 player into the NHL All-Star game since 1986, meanwhile the other has done it 12 times? Ouch, UoM only has Vanek, meanwhile UND has plenty..


Which University has developed a player into the NHL to become the 3rd youngest Captain ever in the NHL? Jonathan Toews from UND, meanwhile I heard Grant Potulny might crack an NHL lineup here pretty quick...

I guess if I was a great hockey player I'd probably just choose the Canadian Leagues. LOL

Hey good talk, for more info on NCAA hockey stats, read up on my blog, as I'll have my list of all NCAA schools alumni in the NHL. I did an analysis of last years NHL rosters back in December..

ChrisDilks said...

Come on people this dude is a Landcow fan who has always disliked the Sioux.

He's biased as hell and obviously loves stirring the pot. One thing people should understand he's a stupid blogger not a journalist/writer. Thus, you'll see no objectivity what so ever in his blog posts(which happens to be 95% of the time he writes).

Anonymous said...

Isn't it amazing how a group of fans emulate their team? Golden Nancy Boys on the ice and a bunch of pathetic nancy boys in the stands. TFF

Anonymous said...

Sioux Fans are predictable. They think its ok to stick up for yoru teamates by fighting. this is true in the pros, however its illegal in college hockey. Its illegal for a reason, to keep shit like you try and pull out of the game. I have been to hundreds of college hockey games, the chippiest one always involve the sioux. I am a bulldog fan and dont really like the gophers but i respect how they handle themselves most times (Tom Pohl incident). What would the sioux have done? bench clearing brawl? The fact of the matter is the Sioux are a very skilled team but they are known as a goon team, which is a shame. Their antics sure take away from players like Bina, Toews, Oshie, and Chorney who play the game the right way. I loved watching those guys play but idiots like Jones, Finley, Kaip and on and on and on make me Hate the sioux. But like all goons, the more you hate them the more they think the are the greatest...

Anonymous said...

"Your boy Jonesey was Jonesed by Lucia. Lucia played him. And played him well. And he played all the rest of you too. He was smart enough to bait Jones into dropping his gloves. That's why he is at the U while the rest of you only dream of going to a real school."

Trust me, you guys at "The U" can have this kid. This scrum is the only reason you are talking about Lucia, rather than productive play. He was nowhere all weekend, and did nothing to contribute to your team.

Say what you want about the UND program and fans lacking class, but it's not our program that was rioting and setting fires after any of our National Championships. Explain the logic and class in those actions, please.

What also is comical is how MN fans comment and how no other fan base likes us. Please give me the name of a fan base that likes MN, beyond themselves.

Anonymous said...

ANON 12:53. Correct, both teams are hated by most everyone else. That happens when you're two of the top teams every year...

The riot's were about 85% non student idiots from MPLS. Unlike Grand Forks (not a rip on UND at all) there is a huge metro area around. People are drawn to a party and they got out of hand. Not sure i'd say that was a proud moment at the U but how do you consider UND Classy with a nickname as derogatory (offensive or insulting for you North Dakotans) as the Fighting Sioux? Thats classy, and ironic. The Sioux tribe had an alliance with the French, so how you call yourself the "fighting" sioux is beyond me...vintage NoDak.

Anonymous said...

Hey BrettB, lets take another look at this...

Nobel Laureates
Minnesota 18
NoDak 0

Pulitzer Prize winners
Minnesota 4
NoDak 1

Academic Ranking of World Universities

Minnesota 28
NoDak Unranked

We can go on and on...The fact of the matter is MOST college hockey players dont play in the Show. MOST college hockey players get real jobs and become productive members of society. Which school would you rather go to??? I guess if you can get into both that is...

Anonymous said...

I didnt know that this was an academic argument. And if your college has every say in what you do with ur life then i guess Bill Gates should be living on welfare right now.

Anonymous said...

I went to UND, got a business degree and went on to start and sell four companies. Today, I am sitting here reading all of this, looking out over my private beach in the warm sun loving how much the Sioux continue to beat the "mighty little gophers". I guess I shouldn't be surprised. little gophers end up squashed on the roads all the time.

BrettB in STL said...

Anon @1:46pm today:

So which 18 UoM Hockey players Nobel Laureates went on to win those?

Which 4 UoM and 1 UND Hockey players went on to win the Pulitzer Prize?

Last time I checked 14 of the 22 on UND's roster is drafted (Duncan a former Hobey Winner is Undrafted, but even he'll play pro somewhere), meaning everyone of those guys GOAL is to make the BIG SHOW.

"fact of the matter is MOST college hockey players dont play in the Show." --Maybe this is true for you in Gopher land, but in Sioux Land most do go onto play professionally. Each year UND keeps putting out higher quality as well as quantity. Maybe that has something to do with the Building, Facilities, Tradition, or the Coaching staff...

But for you to come into a hockey conversation with Education Awards is simply irrelevant. If a hockey player wanted to get an education and play hockey he surely wouldn't go to UoM, he'd go to Harvard or an Ivy League school silly. Also that same player probably wouldn't even be recruited by UND. (Although Oshie, Toews, and Spirko, are all still taking online courses last I heard)

But anytime you want to fill this comment section with current stats about the Hockey programs at UoM vs UND feel free to. I always enjoy reading the bright spots!

Anonymous said...

Come on now - don't hate on the success of UND alum. Look at Ralph Engelstad.... dude was loaded!

Oh wait, he also liked Hitler and said he wouldn't give UND money if they lost the Sioux logo.

Anonymous said...

The Sue got 3 recruits to commit after the Gophers series - all canucks, wierd!

All future goons I am sure.

Anonymous said...

Just a look at when multiple penalties were called at the same time in the games:

Friday
2nd 17:29 UND 2min MN 12min
3rd 18:05 UND 8min MN 10or12min (Did Stoa get 4 or 6 when he jumped on Hextall?)
3rd 18:17 UND 2min MN 2min

Saturday
1st 02:12 UND 2min MN 2min
1st 11:57 UND 2min MN 4min
3rd 06:02 UND 12min MN 14min
3rd 09:41 UND 30min MN 18min

Is it fair to say that the team with the most minutes in each situation were the instigators? If so MN wins 4-1-2.

6>1 said...

Brett: Maybe you should check the record a little closer. I'm pretty sure more players from Minnesota have played in the NHL than from UND. You are good at picking and choosing in order to bolster your argument but the facts can be a stubborn thing.

By my count reviewing the records at www.hockeydb.com, UND has sent 67 players to the NHL. Minnesota by comparison has sent 83 players to the NHL.

I know guys like Brett from St. Louis like to create the impression that UND is the top school sending players to the NHL. He is wrong. I don't know which school has sent the most but at least I do know that more Gophers have played in the NHL than players from UND.

Spin those numbers Brett.

Anonymous said...

I think that it's hilarious that Goofer fans are always bitching when a hockey game breaks out when they go see their prescious Pride on Ice" play.

It's HOCKEY you fricking idiots!!!

If you don't want one of your little figure skaters to get pummeled tell them to keep there mouths shut and just play the game.

If your players are going to run their mouths and then take shots at guys behind the play then at least show enough sack to man up and go toe-to-toe.

Your cheerleaders have more guts than Lucia, Barribal(less), Stoa and the rest of the tampon wearing sissies on your team.

They should be called the Golden Vaginas.

Anonymous said...

Brett B--you can brag all you want about Sioux in the pros. Doesn't change the fact that UND program is losing respect all the time and is being more and more despised every year because of the on-ice BS that ocurs so often when they play. That's what you and every other Sioux fan seems to refuse to acknowledge. I'm certainly no fan of the Gophers either, but I can tell you that public perception is they run a much cleaner and high character program than the Sioux. And what's the old adage....perception is reality. The Sioux program has been elevated to ridiculous heights by the fans because there's no competition for them. The state has nothing else to offer. There's nothing wrong with being a proud supporter of your team, but take off your blinders and get off your high horse.

Anonymous said...

ANON 1:53 - You're changing the argument on the fly. The comments directed at the UND fan base on this site have not been specific to the students of the University, they've been directed at "Sioux Fans." Try all you want to paint the picture a little better for the riots, but the fact of the matter is it came from your fan base.

Also, I'm wondering how many % Sioux your heritage is. Obviously, to come out and say our nickname is deroagatory must mean you are part of the Sioux culture and it effects you. One of my best buddies is 50% Sioux and he wears the logo with pride. He views it as a symbol of honor, and a way to promote the Sioux Heritage in a positive way. The nickname/logo means different things to different people. So tell me, how does it effect you negatively on a daily basis.

Anonymous said...

As much as it may hurt the ego of MN fans posting on this site, we don't run our program in hopes of gaining respect from your fan base. Our program has proven results. Have those results come in a physical and aggressive manner? No doubt! However, you guys whine year after year about how we play, and it's usually after you have been beaten by us. And then you go to the respect card. Save that argument for someone who cares....

Anonymous said...

Do a little research on who doesn't like the logo. You might find out that only a few don't like the logo and name. They just happened to be the loudest or the ones who are in power. As someone who works quite a bit with actual people on the Standing Rock reservation (which I'm sure all you who say the name is racist do as well) I have a much more accurate idea why a certain council member is fighting the logo so much. No it's not HisHorseIsThunder either.

Kookman said...

Hey Anony 12:53:

What fun is a riot when you are standing in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere with nothing to burn. And speaking of burning...Can't you guys see the edge of hell from your dorm room?

Just wondering.

BrettB in STL said...

Hey 6>1:
If you looked under my blog post on Dec.8th, I broke down all the NCAA schools that had alumni in the NHL. The top school was Michigan-22, Wisconsin-18,UND-16, BC-15, MichiganState-13, St Cloud-12. Your hockeydb is worthless, no one cares what happened in the 60's,70's,80's.. Unless your UoM that takes pride in that 1986 NHL All-Star Ballot, and 2008 their next one.

I don't spin numbers, as we all know UND has been getting higher quality, and quantity players since 2000. If I did spin numbers I'd tell you that since 2000 UND has been sending players into the NHL at one of the fastest rates, but I'm not going to do that, I'd rather just tell you the facts.

Anon 5:17:
You can think the Sioux program is losing respect all you want. It's wierd that you say that, because I watch a lot of Devils, Blues, Sabres, Kings, Canes, and BlackHawks games; and every game like clockwork, the announcers will talk about one of their players playing at UND, and how great of a school it is..
In fact the Devils v. Kings games, both announcers (devils homers, and kings homers) talked about Parise and Greene living together in the dorms at UND, after Zpar burned Greener for a goal.. But I guess the NHL brass, and media must be losing respect for this program, but at the same time they are drafting more and more players from UND? Weird, I know.. I guess for the sake of argument, that you're right, most fans like yourself that think North Dakota has nothing to offer, will think our program lacks class as well.. Good talk.

ps Chris' post isn't about Sioux Fans, or UND's lack of class, or the GOPHERS GETTING THEIR BUTTS KICKED ALL OVER THE ICE OVER THE WEEKEND, it's clearly about why OFFICIALS in the League can't seem to call the right penalty. Also he wanted to know:


WHY???

Let's get back on topic, I'm pretty sure this is about the refs, not anything to do with the teams playing in it.. Am I right Chris? :)

Anonymous said...

Bret - I am pretty sure Chris thinks the Sue goon it up too.... look at his past post under the North Dakota tag... one of my favorites is "Color Me More Surprised"

Everyone, except Sue fans know they are a bunch of classless cheap shot artists.

6>1 said...

Brett---Thanks for proving my point for me. Is there any significance to using 2000 as a cutoff for your statistics? Seems more like an arbitrary figure used by you to skew the numbers in favor of your point of view. Liars figure and figures lie.

You Missed counting Wheeler in your list by the way. Additionally I got the hockeydb link re:Sioux players from the Siouxsports.com site. Apparently those numbers matter to a few people otherwise they wouldn't be prominently placed on a Sioux fan site.

The number comparison is relevant from a historical reference regardless to what you say. Just as the 7>5 argument is relevant as well. You can't have it both ways.

Drafted players on this years teams. UND-14 plus Duncan UM-16 plus Schroeder (not draft eligible last draft)

Are there any other 1st rounders besides Joe Finley still playing as seniors?

6>1 said...

Will Lamroo be getting to the show soon? How about ZPar? Just curious Brett.

Anonymous said...

BrettB.

How ironic is that all Gopher fans ever hear is how NoDak has more championships than the gophers yada yada yada. Since you are refering to 2000 to present, how can you say that NoDak has been getting better players? How many titles have they won? I know i know you are talking about getting to the NHL, thats all good and fine but i remember one Zach Parise (great hockey player and good kid) say he went to college to win a chipper, not to prepare himself for the show. He Failed.

6>1 said...

Sorry, I meant Jpar, How's his quest to get to the show going?

2and10 said...

Double check your facts on the suspension after the Denver series last year. It wasn't for the initial pushing match Radke got 2 and 10 for, it was for the fighting major in the third.
(I could be wrong here, but I think there was a second altercation.)

A lot of people are arguing that UND doesn't play nice. I'm ok with that idea, and I agree, they play a physical, rough game. Often they push things to the limit and over. As much as some people don't like it, it's hockey...you say it's not? Until something changes, apparently it is. I don't complain about other teams when they take shots at UND, (i.e. Lucia(?), CC, Wisc, Denver) because it's part of the game. Secondly they maybe have it coming. The thing that makes UND great at it is that the whole team is committed to a style and eachother. You play your style, we'll play ours. UND willingly suffers the consequences of their style and willingly accepts the benefits.

Win or lose, the product speaks for itself.

Brad Johnson said...

My how our hockey friends to the east have their panties all in a wad! Their first argument is how our team is a bunch of goons. Then we are no good because we have a bunch of Canadians. Then it moves on to how we are all ignorant. From there it inevitably goes to how crappy a place Grand Forks and more generally ND is. Sounds like we have a bunch of uppity, too good, pretend elites to put up with. I realize that it may be hard to believe, but most of us don't care. As someone else proclaimed, people really don't like you when you are good. Just like the Yankees and Duke basketball. I'm guilty of hating those two teams because I have gotten tired of them winning. That doesn't mean I go around disparaging their fans or calling them names. If you can't make your argument based on results and have to resort to disparaging the people or the place, maybe you need to do some research to back your story up, or just admit defeat on this one and wait until the next time. I realize it wouldn't be nearly as fun. I've lived in GF, Mpls., and now I live in NC, and I have enjoyed them all and each has its good and bad points. No one place is a Utopia, although I realize that is hard for you Twin Cities folk to realize that!

Anonymous said...

UND fans are far more arrogant than Gopher fans. I am a UMD fan and I dispise the gophers, but the fans from North Dakota are far worse than any other group of fans i have ever encountered. They are dispicable.

Anonymous said...

we all know this past weekend was a mirage. The Sue will lose to MTU this weekend, and things will be back to normal. Your guys got up to play one weekend, congrats! Now back to sucking with your midget Hobey Baker winner as the only player who is worth a damn on that team.... speaking of which, who stays two more years after winning the HB; thats just sad!

Anonymous said...

"UND fans are far more arrogant than Gopher fans"

That's the understatement of the year. There's not a more pompous and dimwitted group of hockey fans than those for UND. Sioux fans are like mushrooms--they should be fed dung and kept in the dark.

BrettB in STL said...

Good Stuff,

I don't really know where the debate is at, with so many anonymous posters I have no clue who said what.. Must be a Minnesota thing to be anonymous...

Since some think I (a UND fan and Mankato fan) am in denial about UND being a goon squad? I just know that going into any hockey game, I know that if a team starts getting chippy and starting scrums, UND will throw down, they won't tuck tail and run to the officials. (Some great battles recently between MSU-M and UND I'm sure you've seen them on youtube)

I won't confuse more people with NHL Stats, as that made even more confused. (never once did I bring up National Title Banners, although to win a National Title, you need to be in the Frozen Four to have a shot at it. Or did the NCAA start giving them out to the team with the best 1st half??)

As far as past UND goalies that weren't drafted, I thought the best goalie of the bunch would've been Karl Goerhing, but even he didn't become one of the Greats like Jon Casey and Ed "the Eagle" Belfour. JPar's out in Europe I think living his dream of getting paid to play the game. Lammy just got bumped up the order on the Blues roster. As their 1st round draft pick Marek Schwarz was a huge bust the past few years, and with Manny Legace having pity parties, it sounds like he'll be gone from the Blues at the end of the season or the trade deadline. Moving Ben Bishop from Peoria up to the Blues to backup Chris Mason. That moves Lammy to move up from Alaska Aces to Peoria, and from what some in the Blues media have told me is that in about 3 years you could see the tallest and one of the shortest goal tending tandem in the NHL:
Big Ben and Phillys (but don't forget about Chris Holt, as he could fit in somewhere too)

Lastly, whoever brought up Zach Parise I don't really know where to go with that. I thought every Minny fan was irate with him going to UND, as he was like the definition of minnesota hockey kid.. Although I did read earlier this year when the Wild were trying to shop Mariann Gaborik to the Devils, they wanted Parise in return? I read the comments section, and it seems many of you Minnesotans have forgiven the guy, maybe he'll give you all a shout out at the All-Star game????

RR said...

I for one don't have a problem with the way the Sioux play the game. They have been playing a similar style forever. No surprises at all. They have had seasons where playing Sioux hockey has been successful and they have had plenty of years playing that style where they haven't been so successful. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

The games this weekend other than the lopsidedness of the outcomes closely resembled a lot of games between these two teams over the years. Neither teams have the market cornered on dominance. The pendulum has swung in both directions. Recent edge to the Sioux but in the overall record the Gophers have about a 15 game edge.

What has gotten lost in the discussion is the hysteria over Matt Jones' wild man performance and whether or not Tony Lucia butt ended, speared, elbowed or gave Evan Trupp a dirty look.

Many Sioux fans here stated unequivicably that Lucia speared Trupp. Then the story changed. Three Sioux players said it was a butt end. Nobody really could establish what really happened in my opinion. I don't think Trupp looked to shook up. Replays were inconclusive.

The ensuing theatrics were right out of Slap-shot. It really is too bad that fighting in college hockey is prohibited. It would be much better to have things settled with a good fight and not have to worry about progressive suspensions. Just another intrusion by the NCAA that sought to make the game better but instead fostered other situations that tend to make matters worse.

Regardless I think Jones shoving the linesman warrants some sort of discipinary measure. He was out of line.

Lots of season left for both teams. Reading a whole lot into last weekend doesn't mean much. The Sioux have ten losses, the Gophers five. The Sioux still have to hump to get into the NCAA's, same for Minnesota.

Is it cold enough up there for you?

Anonymous said...

105 comments - thats a nice little run. I had to write one more because we can't let RR have the last word. He is a major tool!

Kookman said...

Anony 3:29:

Maybe the sue fans really are mushrooms. After all, they are close enough to the North Pole that it is dark most of the time anyway. Plus, they ARE fed a nice diet of poo on a constant basis called UND Hockey.

Anonymous said...

RR--As a Sioux fan, I totally agree with what you're saying. Well said.

A question I have is if somebody spears you with there blade, or somebody jams the butt end of the stick into a player, is it really that different? Why isn't that type of action considered "goon hockey?"

Chris....What's the record for posts on a thread?

Anonymous said...

anon 2:40...maybe the fact that duncan won the hobey when he was a sophomore has something to do with staying two more years. maybe he actually wants to get a degree before going to play with the big dogs.