This is the kind of stuff that makes you want to bash your head against the wall. I was doing a little NHL draft research, and checking out the WHL's scoring leaders.
Remember how this is a banner year for talent in the WHL? Guess who is in the top ten in league scoring? None other than Mark Santorelli, who backed out of his commitment to Northern Michigan this summer to play with the expansion Chilliwack Bruins. Erik Felde and Tyler Swystun are both a touch under a point per game as well.
In the OHL, Sam Gagner still leads the league in scoring, and Pat Kane is third. Trevor Lewis is 9th in league scoring. David Meckler, who left Yale this summer, is 29th in league scoring.
Sam Gagner's success in particular brought about a lot of discussion in the hockey about the USHL and college hockey and the OHL. In my mind, it's not an issue of Gagner not being able to score as many points in NCAA hockey, since goals are tougher to come by. It's an issue of him being able to lead a league in scoring. Would Mark Santorelli be among the NCAA league leaders in scoring if he had gone to Northern Michigan? Probably not. It's just frustrating to see all the great talent that the NCAA has lost out on over the past couple years.
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As a former youth and NCAA Division II hockey player within the USA Hockey system, and former Coach within the USA Hockey system at various levels of travel, and also high school, I have to say that there is really no comparison between the NCAA level and the CHL.Canadians should not take this as a knock against Canadian hockey comment, because Canada is still the best hockey country in the world, at least in my opinion. However, NCAA players are older, more mature and there are more better players per team than CHL teams have. Sure, the better CHL teams have 6 fwds and 3 or 4 d'men that are good, but college teams have much more depth and offer greater competition from game to game. Many 19 year-old CHL players waste a year of too easy of competition only because the rules give them no where else to go.
Yeah, what will Gagne do to the OHL the next 2 years if he doesn't make the NHL early like Staal just did? Gagne doesn't have Staal's size and strength to be an 18 year-old NHLer so he may get stuck playing against younger less gifted players for two years after this one.
I know I'm a dreamer, but wouldn't the hockey world be great if Major Junior in Canada was restricted to players age 16-19 and then at age 20, the truly top players could go pro and the others could then go the NCAA route as 20 year-old Freshman and all be 23 year-old Seniors still having an opportunity to sign a pro contract as free agents if they were late developers. It's close to that now but many 18 and 19 year olds are caught in the middle in the current system. My way, a 20 year-old is making the decision to go pro vs. NCAA and not Major Junior vs. NCAA. If the NCAA would relax some of its ridiculous rules and the CHL would stop paying cash to its players it might provide great entertainment for hockey fans in both countries!
While the cream of the crop in the NCAA would beat the best CHL teams, the problem that Mr Division II coach failed to realize is that there are simply to few cream of the crop teams to make all that much of a difference. Having seen numerous CHL and D-1 games, I can almost guarantee you that the London Knights would kill a Michigan Tech or Mankato.
Gagner, Kane and many other high profile players want to be in the NHL by the time they are 20. As a result the NCAA simply does not serve their purpose. If it did, the vast majority of elite NCAA players would not be bolting for the pro ranks when they are still under classmen.
It seems to me that more and more elite American prospects are starting to realize this and that is why you are seeing the clear majority of the NHL pro-prospect players choosing the CHL over the NCAA.
Why do canadians have to go to a NCAA school. They have good schools in Canada with good hockey teams. The late bloomers are still signing with minor league pro teams. With the new NHL CBA, college hockey will never be as deep with NHL prospects. Top players are gone after 1 or 2 yrs.
More frequently, overage CHL players are moving to university hockey in Canada as both a second chance and an opportunity at an education. Sports scholarships are slowly creeping upwards in Canadian schools and the product is improving for some of the programs such as the University of Alberta. More importantly, a good number are now making the Pros, even the NHL.
I agree with the Canadian University hockey system comments, however the CIS is not yet the NCAA in terms of competition and level of play. Also, I have to disagree with the comment about London killing Mich Tech or Mankato. No way would that happen, but there's no use arguing about it, as that game will never take place. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but the point is not which team is better, but rather which league is more competitive (greater competition) for the top end players from game to game. You can't tell me that a 19 year-old like Bobby Ryan scoring 3 points a game playing against 16 year-old d'men often times is getting the same competition as a Freshman or Sophomore in a top NCAA program playing against men. Same goes for d'men, CHL d'men are facing 16 and 17 year-old forwards often times, whereas NCAA d'men are competing against grown men with fully developed bodies and more experience. Extremely difficult transition for d'men from CHL to pros because of what I just noted.
Oh yeah, it was a real difficult transition for Dion Phenuf last year or Letang (who is still 19 years old) this year!
The older guys in the NCAA are small, less skilled so they do not offer top quality competition.
Top end 20 year olds should be playing in the AHL and not the NCAA.
My point exactly...now Letang is back in the Q playing aginst boys again!
way to come up with 1 example as an argument (Phaneuf).great sample size to disprove a point! Where did you go to college?
The fact that Letang beat out several other prospects in camp, including many of your "seasoned" NCAA players to crack the Pens opening line up speaks volumes about his ability to play and refutes your ascertation that the CHL has a difficult time in preparing its players for the pro game.
Keith Yandle, Mike Green, Andrej Meszaros, Luc Bourdon,Matt Lashoff, Brent Seabrook and Brent Bunrs are all recent examples of former CHL grads craking a NHL roster right out of Major Junior.
Apparantly I went to a better college than you.
Why Gagner why???
He could have been in the red and white next year. This kid is amazing, and it's pretty obvious the Badgers needed the help scoring goals.
The NCAA has its share of guys making the NHL right away out of college. Matt Carle, Kessel, Paul Statsny, Ryan Malone, Travis Zajac, Adam Burish was up till a couple days ago, Bill Thomas finished last year with Phoenix after leaving UNO.
Not to mention that almost all of the guys who signed with an NHL squad and didn't make the squad are in the AHL and doing very well there (take a look at the AHL rookie scoring leaders, its loaded with ex-collegians)
"Apparantly I went to a better college than you."
Apparently you didn't, or you would have spelled the word right.
"refutes your ascertation that the CHL has a difficult time in preparing its players for the pro game."
Or maybe some people are just so good it doesn't matter where they play?
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